12:03:42 From cliff zlotnik : trivia: what did Redi, Spallanzani and Pasteur try to prove or disprove?
12:11:07 From Scott Armour : First things first - the new BioAerosols is excellent - def a “science”-heavy reference - not a “mold tester” or “mold inspector” friendly document.
12:13:06 From Scott Armour : Collaboration is often KEY to getting funding and for running a “low cost” research project!
12:14:14 From Scott Armour : From experience - there are many organizations (educational, gov’t, NGO, advocacy) that are willing and able to participate with a larger group - this allows sharing of resources and makes it easier for each to participate and it brings a variety of expertise and experience to the project
12:15:43 From Scott Armour : Mold, Fire, Disinfection are very popular “problems” now - high profile if you will…. And many local organizations, smaller schools with grad programs, and local gov’t support agencies are already committing resources to these problems - and in reality, are WASTING money (spinning their wheels)…
12:17:31 From Scott Armour : IICRC MUST begin to include actual science professionals if they want to participate - they historically alienate IH’s and others who have huge amount of experience and applicable skills - the vast majority of IICRC are “contractors” and “instructors”… and this means a lot of anecdotes and little empirical evidence!
12:19:09 From Scott Armour : LOL… Don right!
12:23:19 From Jack Springston : Noooooooooooooo!
12:23:40 From Scott Armour : If only Don could scream this from all the rooftops - Don’t do Sampling first - Don’t sell “Mold tests”…
12:24:37 From Scott Armour : All sample results MUST increase the power of your decision-making. Which means exactly what Don just said - know the answer BEFORE you choose to sample, before you pick your sampling method.
12:24:37 From Jack Springston : both Phil and John Tiffany
12:24:55 From Scott Armour : OMG the Hilton was crazy! How many 1000 samples?
12:26:29 From Scott Armour : Interesting you brought up your experience advising and tutoring to get CIH and other qualifications. It is clear that today’s typical “IEP” is not equipped to create reliable and valid sampling plans. They can take a sample. But it’s not necessarily reliable or valid with regard to what the client wants to find out - too much misinformation - the BioAerosols provide a GReAT starting point for actual science-based information. The industry needs a better distinction of the qualifications and professional titles to do “testing” vs “develop valid plan”… for example: a basic IEP VS professional and formally educated Industrial Hygienist, functional practitioner/naturopath VS environmental health scientist. Restoration Contractor VS fire/mold IEP.
12:26:30 From Scott Armour : Don’s Chapter is one of the reasons this is more important now than ever. WHAT can ACGIH do to help this?
12:31:39 From Scott Armour : “First”…. Do the inspection and building science and building history and occupant conditions
12:34:28 From Cheri Marcham : The chapter is source sampling not necessarily surface sampling
12:35:42 From Jack Springston : Source, as in bulk material, bulk liquid, or surface/settled dust
12:37:01 From Alfred Hall S23 FE : I tried to find the Bioaerosol book & found it too difficult from the results. Can you point us in the right way to get the book? Maybe a link to buy it.
12:37:39 From Jack Springston : that's Juan to you
12:39:34 From Scott Armour : Reacted to "that's Juan to you" with
12:40:09 From Alfred Hall S23 FE : Repeat?
12:40:28 From Alfred Hall S23 FE : THANK YOU
12:40:40 From Scott Armour : Warning to the industry and all of us: be careful what we wish for - regarding surfaces - Don and Jack (aka John) are correct (when are they ever wrong? Lol) _ BUT there are labs, naturopaths , many remediators and mold-testers that are pushing things like ERMI, PCR for mold, endotoxins, Actinos, mycotoxins etc. They find one bacteria or one spore or 1 mycotoxin and tell people to gut entire rooms, entire attics, discard entire HVAC systems ! etc… These methods and contaminants are NOT reliable or valid - there are no references for most of the so-called “mold illness” (aka CIRS) related contaminants, which have been expanded far beyond just mold… There is a huge misinformation machine out there right now - scammers and posers… who totally ignore EXPOSURE and actual HEALTH
12:40:46 From Scott Armour : YES JOE YES
12:40:56 From Radio Joe : ACGIH.org
12:40:57 From Scott Armour : Not just “air” but also those other things I just listed!!!!
12:42:03 From Scott Armour : GOOD labs can be very helpful - imho, Galson and Prism for example - classic IH and Enviro lab that has great in-house IH consultants and specialists
12:43:43 From Jack Springston : can also collect a bulk sample of the HVAC filter to see what it has captured over time
12:44:07 From Jack Springston : especially good if you have the filters changed on a regular and frequent basis
12:45:08 From Scott Armour : Replying to "especially good if y..."
And if they have regular changing of filters, it can be even better if you can do several over time …but clients either don’t have time to wait or willingness to commit the cost.
12:45:17 From Scott Armour : Reacted to "especially good if y..." with
12:47:14 From Scott Armour : IMPORTANT _ what Don is saying about pRV is now consistent with the 2024 S520… it is consistent with BioAerosols, Green Book, AIHA PRV… and more.
12:49:09 From Jack Springston : you can cut out a piece, but as Don points out, you need to discuss with the lab
12:49:47 From Scott Armour : and you need to know what particles sizes are being capture in the filter - MERV 8 is hugely different than MERV 12 etc
12:51:20 From Scott Armour : Difficult to sample when it’s 19 below zero F…. Lol
12:54:34 From Jack Springston : labs would love it if you did
12:54:56 From Jack Springston : ohhhh, we need at least 2 or 20%
12:55:10 From Scott Armour : you CAN send blank swab or blank tape… this is QA/QC for the media… and the handling of the media AND the lab ansysis.
12:59:05 From Scott Armour : Don - can contractors “confirm” the presence (or not) of an (invisible) contaminant like mold spores or fire residue (potentially toxic chemicals) with just a visual wipe like a sponge or cloth?
13:02:04 From Scott Armour : GREAT DON - thank you