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Show Discussion:
12:03:42 From cliff zlotnik : trivia: what did Redi, Spallanzani and Pasteur try to prove or disprove?
12:11:07 From Scott Armour : First things first - the new BioAerosols is excellent - def a “science”-heavy reference - not a “mold tester” or “mold inspector” friendly document.
12:13:06 From Scott Armour : Collaboration is often KEY to getting funding and for running a “low cost” research project!
12:14:14 From Scott Armour : From experience - there are many organizations (educational, gov’t, NGO, advocacy) that are willing and able to participate with a larger group - this allows sharing of resources and makes it easier for each to participate and it brings a variety of expertise and experience to the project
12:15:43 From Scott Armour : Mold, Fire, Disinfection are very popular “problems” now - high profile if you will…. And many local organizations, smaller schools with grad programs, and local gov’t support agencies are already committing resources to these problems - and in reality, are WASTING money (spinning their wheels)…
12:17:31 From Scott Armour : IICRC MUST begin to include actual science professionals if they want to participate - they historically alienate IH’s and others who have huge amount of experience and applicable skills - the vast majority of IICRC are “contractors” and “instructors”… and this means a lot of anecdotes and little empirical evidence!
12:19:09 From Scott Armour : LOL… Don right!
12:23:19 From Jack Springston : Noooooooooooooo!
12:23:40 From Scott Armour : If only Don could scream this from all the rooftops - Don’t do Sampling first - Don’t sell “Mold tests”…
12:24:37 From Scott Armour : All sample results MUST increase the power of your decision-making. Which means exactly what Don just said - know the answer BEFORE you choose to sample, before you pick your sampling method.
12:24:37 From Jack Springston : both Phil and John Tiffany
12:24:55 From Scott Armour : OMG the Hilton was crazy! How many 1000 samples?
12:26:29 From Scott Armour : Interesting you brought up your experience advising and tutoring to get CIH and other qualifications. It is clear that today’s typical “IEP” is not equipped to create reliable and valid sampling plans. They can take a sample. But it’s not necessarily reliable or valid with regard to what the client wants to find out - too much misinformation - the BioAerosols provide a GReAT starting point for actual science-based information. The industry needs a better distinction of the qualifications and professional titles to do “testing” vs “develop valid plan”… for example: a basic IEP VS professional and formally educated Industrial Hygienist, functional practitioner/naturopath VS environmental health scientist. Restoration Contractor VS fire/mold IEP.
12:26:30 From Scott Armour : Don’s Chapter is one of the reasons this is more important now than ever. WHAT can ACGIH do to help this?
12:31:39 From Scott Armour : “First”…. Do the inspection and building science and building history and occupant conditions
12:34:28 From Cheri Marcham : The chapter is source sampling not necessarily surface sampling
12:35:42 From Jack Springston : Source, as in bulk material, bulk liquid, or surface/settled dust
12:37:01 From Alfred Hall S23 FE : I tried to find the Bioaerosol book & found it too difficult from the results. Can you point us in the right way to get the book? Maybe a link to buy it.
12:37:39 From Jack Springston : that's Juan to you
12:39:34 From Scott Armour : Reacted to "that's Juan to you" with
12:40:09 From Alfred Hall S23 FE : Repeat?
12:40:28 From Alfred Hall S23 FE : THANK YOU
12:40:40 From Scott Armour : Warning to the industry and all of us: be careful what we wish for - regarding surfaces - Don and Jack (aka John) are correct (when are they ever wrong? Lol) _ BUT there are labs, naturopaths , many remediators and mold-testers that are pushing things like ERMI, PCR for mold, endotoxins, Actinos, mycotoxins etc. They find one bacteria or one spore or 1 mycotoxin and tell people to gut entire rooms, entire attics, discard entire HVAC systems ! etc… These methods and contaminants are NOT reliable or valid - there are no references for most of the so-called “mold illness” (aka CIRS) related contaminants, which have been expanded far beyond just mold… There is a huge misinformation machine out there right now - scammers and posers… who totally ignore EXPOSURE and actual HEALTH
12:40:46 From Scott Armour : YES JOE YES
12:40:56 From Radio Joe : ACGIH.org
12:40:57 From Scott Armour : Not just “air” but also those other things I just listed!!!!
12:42:03 From Scott Armour : GOOD labs can be very helpful - imho, Galson and Prism for example - classic IH and Enviro lab that has great in-house IH consultants and specialists
12:43:43 From Jack Springston : can also collect a bulk sample of the HVAC filter to see what it has captured over time
12:44:07 From Jack Springston : especially good if you have the filters changed on a regular and frequent basis
12:45:08 From Scott Armour : Replying to "especially good if y..."

And if they have regular changing of filters, it can be even better if you can do several over time …but clients either don’t have time to wait or willingness to commit the cost.
12:45:17 From Scott Armour : Reacted to "especially good if y..." with
12:47:14 From Scott Armour : IMPORTANT _ what Don is saying about pRV is now consistent with the 2024 S520… it is consistent with BioAerosols, Green Book, AIHA PRV… and more.
12:49:09 From Jack Springston : you can cut out a piece, but as Don points out, you need to discuss with the lab
12:49:47 From Scott Armour : and you need to know what particles sizes are being capture in the filter - MERV 8 is hugely different than MERV 12 etc
12:51:20 From Scott Armour : Difficult to sample when it’s 19 below zero F…. Lol
12:54:34 From Jack Springston : labs would love it if you did
12:54:56 From Jack Springston : ohhhh, we need at least 2 or 20%
12:55:10 From Scott Armour : you CAN send blank swab or blank tape… this is QA/QC for the media… and the handling of the media AND the lab ansysis.
12:59:05 From Scott Armour : Don - can contractors “confirm” the presence (or not) of an (invisible) contaminant like mold spores or fire residue (potentially toxic chemicals) with just a visual wipe like a sponge or cloth?
13:02:04 From Scott Armour : GREAT DON - thank you

IAQ RADIO+

Show Number: 735 DRAFT BLOG

Don Weekes, CIH, CSP
Bioaerosol Sampling Plans, Indoor Air 2024, ASHRAE/AIHA MOU

Good Day and welcome to IAQ Radio+ episode 735 blog. This week, we welcomed Don Weekes a frequent guest longtime friend of the show. Don provided highlights from Indoor Air 2024, the ASHRAE/AIHA MOU and the Global IEQ Alliance. Don provided insight on his chapter in the ACGIH Bioaerosols 2nd Edition on Developing a Bioaerosols Sampling Plans plus.

Mr. Weekes has over forty-eight (48) years of comprehensive consultation expertise and project
experience in the implementation and management of inspections for hazardous materials in numerous buildings throughout Canada and the United States including universities, colleges, governmental offices, and commercial and residential buildings. During Mr. Weekes’ career, he has served in numerous senior management positions in both the consulting and insurance industries.

As a Certified Industrial Hygienist (CIH) and a Certified Safety Professional (CSP), Mr. Weekes has served as an environmental health and safety professional for various international corporations. His extensive capabilities in health and safety audits have enabled him to work in facilities involved with manufacturing, warehousing, and logistics.

Nuggets mind from the show:

Don maintains a busy schedule as a fulltime volunteer.
• ISIAQ 2024- the group put on a good show. A record 900 attendees. The primary subject concentration was on public health. Social, physical and mental health inequality. The health decline of those with lower income is more rapid than the health decline of the more affluent. The asthma rate of the south Bronx NY is double that of across the bridge. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/download ... ief126.pdf
Sleep comfort- bedding and minimization of thermal issues. Good sleep is the prerequisite for good health. Carbon dioxide. Health concerns over paraben preservatives.
Both the IICRC and RIA participated in a panel discussion of “Should surface cleanliness be an independent factor?” and HVAC cleaning.

RadioJoe opined that researchers don’t care about remediation. Don Weekes responded that the lack of research into remediation is due to a lack of funding. Don suggested that IICRC and other groups interested in remediation and cleaning research develop agendas outlining their research interests and offer grant money. 25%-30% of ISIAQ 2024 attendees are students developing their thesis whose thesis will most likely follow-the-available-funding.

ASHRAE-AIHA MOU- Memorandum of Understanding. Both ASHRAE and AIHA are the gold standards for their respective fields. AIHA’s expertise is health, inspection and sampling. ASHRAE’s expertise is HVAC equipment and systems. ASHRAE’s RAC (Research Administration Committee) provides up to $2M annually for funding grants.

Indoor Environmental Quality - Global Alliance (IEQ-GA)-Don Weekes is past president, Bill Bahnfleth is the interim president. Will be providing a free Engineering Glossary of Terms and a Consumer Guide to IEQ.

AIVC Air Infiltration and Ventilation Centre (https://www.aivc.org/) is an international group with 250K members

Joe Lstiburek changed peoples viewpoints right after 9/11.

Developing a Bioaerosols Sampling Plan- the biggest change from the 1999 Bioaerosols book began as an update of the original and ended as a new book. The year 2000 marked the “Mold Rush” and litigation. The new Bioaerosols book goes way beyond the 1999 book, now includes endotoxin and bioterrorism. A significant change is the new emphasis on thorough inspection and observation versus sampling. Creation of a hypothesis and sampling plan should precede sampling. Don cautions: “don’t take a sample unless you know what you are sampling for”, “don’t take a sample unless you know the answer first”. Phil Morey was known for taking large numbers of samples on projects; toward the end of his illustrious career, he took fewer samples.

Don Weekes advocates for minimizing the number of samples taken on projects. According to Don, samples prove or disprove a hypothesis. Air samples only capture what is trapped on the filter surface. Surface sampling captures what is on the surface. Microbial air sampling in quiescent areas may result in false negatives. Both the hypothesis and sampling plan should precede sampling. Sampling should carefully answer the questions or problems. Thorough visual inspection of what inspector sees, documentation, thinking through what is logical to do and where to sample?
Examples of hypothesis:
“Is mold growth in a crawl space effecting the air quality in the rooms above?” “Is that substance living mold growth on a surface or bulk sample?”
“When the problem is found in an area, what to do with the rest of the building?”

There is a good bit of discussion on using a lab to help with your sampling plan but aren’t some labs the reason we see so much unnecessary sampling? Good labs will be able to assist you with developing your sampling plan.
Labs will tell you how to take a bulk sample.

Under decisions involved in determining where to collect samples it says select 1 or preferably or + to 3 samples per location? You can take 1 sample when you know what you are looking for.

What is your opinion on PRV (post remediation verification)?- Select randomized sample locations based upon the visual inspection. It’s hard to prove a negative, e.g. that successful cleaning has been done. There are no numerical guidelines for microbial samples. Concern versus nonconcern areas. AIHA Guideline 3 https://www.aiha.org/education/marketpl ... nd-edition

When is PRV air sampling appropriate? Outside versus inside, concern area versus nonconcern area; compare the critical areas indoor versus outdoor,

What is stratified sampling, when and where is it appropriate? A strata is a subgroup. Part time workers versus fulltime workers.

Blank samples? Don is an advocate for blank samples. May demonstrate that blank has little to do with a contaminated field when blank sample tested in field shows no contamination. Blank samples may not be needed when other samples from the same lot tested in the field showed no contamination. When air sampling and you have no idea what you will likely find, blank samples are required. Blank samples are not needed when taking a bulk sample as you can’t miss the source.

Wall cavity samples? Are discouraged because both false positives and false negatives are common.

Outside samples for PRV? Outdoor samples are subject to the unique environmental conditions encountered during the sampling. You will need to explain why you did or didn’t include an outdoor sample.

Don’s Final Word:
Encourages attendance at the 2025 ASHRAE Conference on IAQ-Montreal, Canada Sept. 24-26, 2025. Interested in presenting, there is a call for papers?

Z-Man signing off

Trivia:
What did the following scientists (Redi, Spallanzanni and Pasteur) try to prove or disprove?

Answer: The occurrence of spontaneous generation

Sorry, there was no correct answer.

As always a great job and interesting interview with Don Weekes. Few if any have done as much for the industry and industry associations. It was interesting to hear what is new from Indoor Air 2024 and get Don's thoughts on why there is not more research on remediation related topics. IICRC and others need to develop a research agenda and put some money into it. From what the Z-man said that may well be happening.

It was also very interesting to hear Don's thoughts on developing bioaerosols sampling plans. Great stuff in this interview!! Thanks you Don Weekes!!!