Episode 648: Eugenia Mirica, PhD - Franco Seif, PE - Joe Spurgeon, PhD - Sampling Surface Char in Residential Properties

Where the IAQ Radio Discussion Continues
Post Reply
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:06 pm

Episode 648: Eugenia Mirica, PhD - Franco Seif, PE - Joe Spurgeon, PhD - Sampling Surface Char in Residential Properties

Post by admin »

Show Resources: Show Discussion:

12:01:31 From Derrick A. Denis : Wildfire smoke residue is a "hot" topic. Very punny Joe.
12:03:42 From Lukas Jenkins (Edifice Rx) : Aliquot
12:03:57 From Lukas Jenkins (Edifice Rx) : Composite
12:03:59 From scott vanetten : composite
12:04:28 From cliff zlotnik : Trivia: According to the US EPA 2014a: US EPA 2016, name the sampling method where several samples are physically mixed together into a larger sample?
12:05:04 From cliff zlotnik : derrick denis was first correct answer, please send ypur contact info to czlotnik@cs.com
12:20:09 From Derrick A. Denis : Char is partially burned plant material with visible cellular properties.
12:20:42 From Derrick A. Denis : Soot is "charcoal" or high carbon burned material.
12:21:01 From Derrick A. Denis : Ash is salt left over after complete combustion of carbon.
12:34:56 From Terry Sopher : “ash & soot not detected…” Is that perhaps due to: (1) time since last wildfire; (2) sampling method not as appropriate for soot or ash as for char?
12:46:53 From Terry Sopher : Re variance in INTERIOR char between houses & within any 1 house & also vis a vis exterior char: Aren’t there numerous important variables that could account for variances? e.g., whether house had attic ventilation; whether house interior was ‘sealed’ during fire;
12:48:50 From Terry Sopher : oops, not finished re variables: ‘relative leakiness’ of house; type of HVAC system & filtration system or absence of filtration; time elapsed between fire termination & sampling; etc etc?
12:51:12 From Terry Sopher : What are studies such as these used for: insurance claims? assessment of health impacts; need for remediation type, extent etc?
12:59:56 From Terry Sopher : Are there studies re to what extent char, ash, soot get airborne & stay airborne due to a person moving around inside a sample location, opening/closing doors, etc? What about sampling in/on surfaces that are more ‘hidden’, out-of=the-way, etc?
13:08:37 From Terry Sopher : Basic Question: why does it matter—of what importance—to know whether residue is char, ash or soot?
13:19:22 From Debra : Yay Terry!
13:19:33 From Terry Sopher : Thanks all for this session
User avatar
CliffZ
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:36 pm

Re: Episode 648: Eugenia Mirica, PhD - Franco Seif, PE - Joe Spurgeon, PhD - Sampling Surface Char in Residential Proper

Post by CliffZ »

What Say You About the Topics Below?

-----Z-Man, I opine that that the work done by: Seif, Spurgeon and Mirica is very important because it has improved sensitivity over tape-lift sampling; fewer just wildfire claims will be denied.

-----Z-Man- Here is a link to homeowner's policy endorsement which REDUCES coverage in the event of wildfires: https://uphelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... sion_1.pdf

-----Z-Man Question for Dr. Mirica - Have you been successful in using sonication to remove fire related particulate from a "chem sponge"? The reason I ask is that, I am an advocate of using triangular white synthetic cosmetic sponges to track smoke residues when inspecting properties following fire losses.

Regarding difference between: Char, Soot & Ash:
From Derrick A. Denis : Char is partially burned plant material with visible cellular properties.
From Derrick A. Denis : Soot is "charcoal" or high carbon burned material.
From Derrick A. Denis : Ash is salt left over after complete combustion of carbon.

From Terry Sopher : “ash & soot not detected…” Is that perhaps due to: (1) time since last wildfire; (2) sampling method not as appropriate for soot or ash as for char?
-----Z-Man Environmental factors break down char over time (sunlight, ozone, hydroxyls, rain, etc.)

From Terry Sopher : Re variance in INTERIOR char between houses & within any 1 house & also vis a vis exterior char: Aren’t there numerous important variables that could account for variances? e.g., whether house had attic ventilation; whether house interior was ‘sealed’ during fire; oops, not finished re variables: ‘relative leakiness’ of house; type of HVAC system & filtration system or absence of filtration; time elapsed between fire termination & sampling; etc etc?
What are studies such as these used for: insurance claims? assessment of health impacts; need for remediation type, extent etc?

From Terry Sopher : Are there studies re to what extent char, ash, soot get airborne & stay airborne due to a person moving around inside a sample location, opening/closing doors, etc? What about sampling in/on surfaces that are more ‘hidden’, out-of=the-way, etc?

----Z-Man- Residues from internal fires may be: char (burnt wood), powdery burnt natural material (ash), greasy (burnt meat), sooty/smeary (burnt plastics)---with dry loose residues and fire residues settled onto preexisting dust the most likely to be resuspended. Internal fires often have a predominant type of residue. Oft times, fire related residue settles onto preexisting dust and soil which can be resuspended. Smoldering fires buildup pressure slowly and may push residues through cracks and crevices into inaccessible areas i.e. interstitial spaces (ceiling and wall cavities)

Basic Question: why does it matter—of what importance—to know whether residue is char, ash or soot?
-----Z-Man- Fires which occur within a building are significantly different than wildfires. The predominant fuel sources of wildfires are trees and plants. Soot is commonly found in internal fires.
User avatar
RadioJoe
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:58 pm

Re: Episode 648: Eugenia Mirica, PhD - Franco Seif, PE - Joe Spurgeon, PhD - Sampling Surface Char in Residential Proper

Post by RadioJoe »

A quick response to Terry S. question
12:51:12 From Terry Sopher : What are studies such as these used for: insurance claims? assessment of health impacts; need for remediation type, extent etc?

This study is exactly the type of study we need more of. This is true practice to research to practice. It will be used for instance in developing standards for assessment of wildfire damage. It will be used in courts to help with determining who is responsible for the remediation of homes and buildings in wildfire areas. I think it is also a good template to use for other important practice to research questions on numerous topics. My appreciation and encouragement goes out to all three of the authors. GREAT JOB!!
Post Reply