Episode 655: J David Miller PhD – The Life and Times of an IEQ Founding Father – It’s Hard to Run Away from Evidence

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Episode 655: J David Miller PhD – The Life and Times of an IEQ Founding Father – It’s Hard to Run Away from Evidence

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Show Resources: Show Discussion:

12:03:43 From Jack Springston : mold
12:03:54 From Victor Cafaro : Cigarette smoking
12:04:29 From cliff zlotnik : correct Jack, please send your contact info to czlotnik@cs.com
12:27:14 From Jack Springston : please discuss how long dust mite allergens remain active
12:27:35 From Jack Springston : or reactive, I should say
12:28:19 From Kishor Khankari : How do I know whether I am exposed to dust mites before getting sick?
12:40:45 From Sharon Kramer : Hi Dr. Miller. Why do you think that CDC still promotes the notions that "There is no blood test for mold. Some physicians can do allergy testing for possible allergies to mold, but no clinically proven tests can pinpoint when or where a particular mold exposure took place....Since the effect of mold on people can vary greatly, either because of the amount or type of mold, you cannot rely on sampling and culturing to know your health risk."? Source of quotes "Basic Facts about Mold and Dampness | CDC" (sorry for your loss, Joe)
12:56:13 From Ralph Froehlich : Should IAQ investigators measure airborne fungal glucans?
12:58:34 From Ralph Froehlich : What about measuring fungal chitins?
13:01:05 From Tom Phillips : Thanks for so much excellent work! I relied heavily on your seminal studies re: mold and gas stove health effects. What critical biological contaminant issues do you think we need to address now, as we move toward low carbon buildings and retrofits, and as our climate changes?
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Re: Episode 655: J David Miller PhD – The Life and Times of an IEQ Founding Father – It’s Hard to Run Away from Evidence

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It's always a pleasure talking to David Miller. It was important to capture what he said today and let it live on so others can learn from his example. He who ignores history is doomed the repeat the mistakes of the past.
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Re: Episode 655: J David Miller PhD – The Life and Times of an IEQ Founding Father – It’s Hard to Run Away from Evidence

Post by CliffZ »

Dr. J. David Miller, PhD never disappoints. His appearance on IAQradio today caused me to think back to where and when I first met him.

I suppose that the city of Cleveland Ohio wished at least two things never happened, the Cayahoga River Fire of 1969 (yes, the river caught on fire) and the "Birthplace of Toxic Black Mold".

Dr. Miller and I first met in Cleveland, Ohio in the 1990s where we were both speakers at a "mold event". This wasn't any mold event. This was an early if not the first "Toxic Black Mold Event.

Some may remember, that it was in Cleveland where 29 cases of pulmonary hemorrhaging in infants occurred and 5 infants died. The 5 deaths were all from homes where Stachybotrys was found. Dr. Miller presented the science and I presented the remediation perspective. Neither Dr. Miller nor me exaggerated the health risks or the complexity of the remediation. A speaker from the local health department and the host of a local home repair show spoke.

I suggest that you take a few minutes and read the blog below where some business and life lessons can be learned from RadioJoe and Z-Man's interview of the Co-founders of JonDon in November of 2015.

Nick & John Paolella – Cofounders of JonDon, Inc. – Making friends out of the people you do business with
Air Date: 11-6-2015| Episode: 390


The theme of this week’s show is: “Making friends out of the people you do business with”, a “coffee table” conservation with Nick &John Paolella Co-founders of Jon Don, Inc…


JonDon

Radio Joe, John Paolella, The Z-man & Nick Paolella

Full Description:

The theme of this week’s show is: “Making friends out of the people you do business with”, a “coffee table” conservation with Nick &John Paolella Co-founders of Jon Don, Inc. Please note this week’s show has a special start time, 2:00pm Eastern Time! The Z-man has been in Chicago all week as part of the Restoration Industry Association’s (RIA) Certified Restorer (CR) instructional team. Jon Don’s corporate headquarters in Roselle, IL is serving as the host facility for this year’s CR prep week. Radio Joe is flying into Chicago to join the Z-man for an intimate interview with the founders of IAQ Radio’s Marquis sponsor. Global Watchdog Pete Consigli also in town with the CR instructional team in his role as RIA’s Director of Education and will join the group around the “coffee table” for this most unique show. Jon Don is known for its legendary customer service and unparalleled support of the industry associations, trade shows and educational & certification programs. This is evident in its pioneering flagship program called, “Strategies for Success® Intensive Training Seminar (SFS)”. Nick and John will share their thoughts with the IAQ Radio’s audience on how making friends out of the people you do business with can dramatically help your company be more successful. Success in business and life is about developing mutually beneficial relationships. Give as much or more than one takes. Teddy Roosevelt has a well known quote that says, “Every man has an obligation to give back to the industry from which he derives his livelihood. Jon Don and its people serves as a model for the spirit of that sentiment. Join us this week and get insights on how to succeed by giving others what they want first and then getting what you want. Take care of your people who will take care of your customers and build a business that will take care of the owners!


Z-Man’s Blog:
Making Friends out of the people you do business with

Nick Paolella started Jon-Don in 1978 with his cousin John Paolella. Over the last thirty years Jon-Don has grown into a national company with 11 locations and over 250 employees. Nick lives in Medinah, Illinois with his wife Judy, and John lives in downtown Chicago.

In typical Jon-Don fashion our IAQradio on-location interview with Nick and John was serious business blended with fun and laughs.

Nuggets mined from today’s interview:

According to Nick, work ethic and dedication to family were two things he saw in young John that made him an ideal future partner. John was the hardest worker in the company where they both previously worked; quickly moving up the ladder from working in warehouse to running the office. Friday after work when the guys went out for a few beers, John always went home.

The most valuable business lesson of “how not to run a business” was learned from their former employer a bad businessman. After starting their own business, when decision making time would come John would consider what would our former boss do in each situation and then consciously do the opposite.

Wanting to stand out from their competition who also sold janitorial and sanitary products they focused on carpet cleaners who needed and wanted business advice. Nick and John sought to start a business to take care of their families. As the company has grown each employees has bought into the founder’s philosophy. The company has many long term employees. The same founding values from 1978 remain in place today.

What does communication mean? Nick: “When I talk to you, you must listen. When you talk to me I must listen.” John, chuckling that they have had few disagreements over the course of their 39 year business relationship, mentioned he was once disappointed in the quality of hockey tickets that Nick once bought for him.

What advice do you have on building strong and enduring business partnerships? John: Understand what each party brings to the table. Identify strengths and the business role each plays. Shut out outside influences. Put your partner’s needs alongside your own. Think what works best for both of us. Avoid making decisions that cause resentment. Resentment is entrapment which can be difficult or impossible to get past.

Nick: John and I always shared the same goal. John wanted to get there really fast and I was more patient, we shared the same goal and we achieved it. An enduring partnership, for 39 consecutive years Nick has called John on June 15 to wish him a happy business anniversary.

What are the cornerstone principles of your business? John learned from his father: the value of valuing people. Due to the internet, continuous improvement is mandatory. Service to the customer above all else. Serving the customer feels good and we can make a living doing it. Respect, communication and integrity. Zero tolerance for disrespect. Change is inevitable. What was special 5 years ago is the baseline today. If you still are doing what you did 5 years ago you will be out of business. People in unrelated businesses will be in your business soon, if not today.

Learning to be better at what they do. “While the industry was entirely focused on technical training, you took a different path, what is Strategies for Success (SFS)?” John and Nick: SFS evolved out of customer’s need for business advice. The SFS instructor team of Bill Yeadon, Steve Toburen and Chuck Violand shared the owner’s vision and commitment. Personal touches, Nick’s daughter Angela is the SFS onsite course coordinator and hostess and Nick is often found behind the grill cooking for the students. The 900 page course manual is loose leaf. Team Jon-Don is obsessed, compulsive and neurotic about providing SFS’ attendees what they need and improving the course.

What are some keys to finding and retaining good employees? John: Looking for employees who care. Jon-Don hires people who care about people. Caring is either in the DNA or taught by your parents. Jon-Don looks for employees who are willing to get up early on a weekend morning to help a friend move for the 3rd time not the ones who show up at 4:00 PM to drink the beer. Looking for employees who embrace change, not run from it. Nick Paolella’s father told him that “if you have a job you don’t enjoy that is interfering with your play time, quit your job.” According to Nick, you must have a job you enjoy doing so you can play. You can play hard, but must show up at 08:00 AM to answer the bell. John: Put the right people in the right places where they can succeed. You will not motivate unmotivated people. Motivated people are quickly demotivated. Take your time hiring, hiring the wrong person is problematic.

Nick: We work very hard to make friends out of the people we do business with. It’s wonderful to give money to people you like when you buy stuff. Rewarding when you receive an order from a customer who likes you.

Nick: The most rewarding feeling is when customers tell us we’ve made a difference in their lives or businesses.

Positive outside business influences. Nick’s former boss enrolled him in a Dale Carnegie course so that he could train sales personnel. The course had a profound effect on Nick’s career. John: Jon-Don’s business philosophy and values are in sync with the book Good to Great. The majority of John’s reading is done to his seven grandchildren. Bill Yeadon is JonDon’s official business book reader.

At Jon-Don the owners set the example, followed by managers, employees and associates, it’s contagious. You don’t fall in love with the business, you fall in love with the people you work with. John and Nick take more pride in their people than they are of their brick and mortar

According to John, Jon-Don looks for markets where they can provide value. Ideas for new product lines come from customers and vendors. Their litmus test is, “if we were a buyer for the product would we buy it from us?” All the markets that Jon-Don is engaged in are growing. Jon-Don believes every product their customer’s buy is in their customer’s best interest. Jon-Don looks for technical staff with a knowledge pedigree in all of their market sectors.

Suggestions for working with associations: Associations do provide a valuable education service for members. Trade shows need to drive people to the exhibit hall. Don’t hold classes that conflict with exhibit time. Don’t adversely impact exhibit time with meals or elaborate large scale demos. According to Nick, the best trade show is in Florida when it rains hard, all day every day.

If you had a business Mulligan what would it be? John: Never having enough available space.

Two vignettes about John: Global Watchdog Pete Consigli told a story about John openly sharing with his competitors at a manufacturer’s sales meeting by making a presentation on hiring employees. Nick tells a story about John attending a manufacturer’s sales meeting where he was publicly asked by the manufacturer to tell his competitors how he managed to sell $1,000,000 of their product? John’s 2 word response was quick and short, “next question?”

Citing parallels that Jon-Don shares with Nordstrom’s and Hewlett-Packard, Pete sums up Jon-Don’s success in core ideologies: doing what you can be you be best at, doing what you are passionate about, providing superior customer service continuous improvement, importance of execution; adding profit isn’t a dirty word.

Working at Jon-Don is being part of something special.

Listeners can become a customer and learn more about Jon-Don at www.jondon.com

Today’s Music: “Chicago” by Frank Sinatra

Z-Man signing off

Trivia:

The Curse of the Billy Goat is a sports related curse that was allegedly placed on the Chicago Cubs in 1945, by a fan asked to leave the ballpark because the odor from his pet goat was annoying other fans. What was the goat’s name?
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Re: Episode 655: J David Miller PhD – The Life and Times of an IEQ Founding Father – It’s Hard to Run Away from Evidence

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Dr. Miller answered some questions during the chat log that we could not get to during the show. We reached out to him with the questions and his answers are below.

Jack Springston : please discuss how long dust mite allergens remain active or reactive.

The short answer is that the allergens are extremely stable in air dry or freezer conditions. The attached paper from 2002 gives the half life as 10 years.

From Ralph Froehlich : What about measuring fungal chitins?

For mold 1, 3 D glucan we understand a lot about how to measure it properly and what the strengths and weaknesses are of the two method that are used in North America (some data from Europe and elsewhere used really crappy methods). Both of these methods are useful in research grade studies. The great thing about all our studies in Canada is that the method we use minimizes the contribution from pollen glucans. Glucans can also be measured with a MALDI TOF MS MS which we have done when sorting this out (gives molecular weights). When we compared glucan and ergosterol in 5 day air samples in 400 homes the ergosterol was a slightly better predictor of area of visible mold. The reason for this is that there is a lot of yeast glucan in house dust. The other thing that is critical is that the mechanism of why mold glucan is harmful to health is clear in humans (activating the dectin receptor).

For fungal chitin the methods that people shop have never been validated. The other thing is that the mechanism by which chitin fragments work is fairly clear (I have papers on this if interested) and the but is that there is a genetic polymorphism which makes some people much more sensitive to the fungal chitin effect.

As I said, mold glucan is discussed thoroughly in the pending ACGIH Bioaersosols book redux that Cheri Marcham and Jack Springston are leading.

From Tom Phillips : Thanks for so much excellent work! I relied heavily on your seminal studies re: mold and gas stove health effects. What critical biological contaminant issues do you think we need to address now, as we move toward low carbon buildings and retrofits, and as our climate changes? I thought you covered this in your answer about the future of IEQ so he may have asked prior to that.

Thanks for the kind words.

My thought about the medium term future about microbials and housing is about floods and weather that a region isn’t used to as in snow or massive atmospheric river dumps. I recall that when the late Phil Morey was drafting his chapter for the NAS report on indoor air and climate change, I had been in DC where I was on the last flight back out of DCA for Ottawa during a snowfall. Houses in the US east coast had roof collapses and an arena ditto because they were not designed for the snow load.

Tightening buildings without appropriate ventilation will result in more allergic disease.

Old contaminants new problems.

I did indicate that in the near term, legionella and non TB mycobacteria is and will get worse due to warming of watersheds, green buildings that increase standing water in premise piping and an aging population will make the health outcome worse.

There is a section this in the pending revision of the ACGIH bioaerosols guide.

I would be interested in learning more about air quality issues with respect to green buildings. Near the end of the episode, Dr. Miller mentioned warm water pipes in green buildings. I wonder if Dr. Miller could provide more info on that issue.

Thanks for the question.

The short answer is that water in premise piping in buildings designed to save water gets warmer than in the past and the chlorine residuals decline. This allows Legionella and non TB mycobacteria to increase. At least in buildings owned by the Canadian government, there is a systematic testing program for Legionella in potable water mainly resulting from water conservation efforts (which are of course good in and of themselves).

This article gives more detail. If this link does not work for you, email the author who is legally able to provide a copy.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/jamewatwor ... _contentsI
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