Episode 674: Marwa Zaatari, PhD & Christian Weeks – How to Achieve Sustainable Indoor Air Quality

Where the IAQ Radio Discussion Continues
Post Reply
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:06 pm

Episode 674: Marwa Zaatari, PhD & Christian Weeks – How to Achieve Sustainable Indoor Air Quality

Post by admin »

Show Resources: Show Discussion:

12:06:00 From Donald Weekes : Condensation?
12:06:19 From cliff zlotnik : name the word that fits this definition: the accumulation of gases, liquids or solutes on the surface of a solid or liquid?
12:06:49 From cliff zlotnik : sorry Don, incorrect
12:07:56 From Jim Newman : I thought the same thing, too, Don.
12:08:00 From Donald Weekes : Adsorption
12:08:03 From Doug Kohnen : Adsorption
12:17:52 From Kishor Khankari : It is not ACH, it is not just filtration, it is all about airflow patterns and air distribution of air that determines the cleanliness,
12:18:53 From Donald Weekes : Can the guests also comment on CADR Ventilation? CADR stands for clean air delivery rate.
12:19:53 From Kishor Khankari : EACH is a misleading mrteics. It does not address the air quality at the breathing zone of occupants.
12:22:04 From Jim Newman : Well said, Kishor.
12:22:47 From Donald Weekes : ASHRAE Standard 62.1 - 2022 has just been published. Good starting point with the IAQ Procedure and other methods.
12:26:47 From Kishor Khankari : These are all prescriptive standards. We need performance based standards to make really difference in IAQ.
12:31:56 From Kishor Khankari : How can we control the sources of contaminants? Otherwise these are merely numbers!
12:37:29 From Kishor Khankari : The major drawback of dilution ventilation is that it is based on well mixed theories
12:40:09 From Kishor Khankari : How can we access the paper
12:41:15 From heather@hrobb.com : Access the paper here: https://enverid.com/resources/learning/ ... ncy-goals/
12:41:34 From Christian Weeks : The paper is available at https://whitepaper.enverid.com/sustainableiaq. I believe it will also be available at https://www.iaqradio.com/.
12:41:35 From Kishor Khankari : Standards are minimum requirements and not the optimized conditions.
12:42:35 From elight : Underlying this discussion is the assumption that air cleaning of typical indoor air (no strong sources) actually improves occupant health. I can find no epidemiological studies that establish health benefit from either cleaning/treating COVID in non-healthcare situations or reducing parts per billion VOCs. Although you correctly point out that formaldehyde is the exception, showing health effects at ppb exposures, my literature review and field experience suggests this is at an order of magnitude above current IAQ guidelines. Am I missing something? Please provide referencing establishing air cleaning actually improves occupant health under typical 'IAQ conditions.
12:47:53 From Kishor Khankari : Please note cleanliness of air and IAQ are not the same,
12:53:32 From elight : Mawra did not answer my questions. As an engineer, she wants numbers to design to and assumes that IAQ guidelines (i.e., LEED and CRELs are based on actual occupant health, which can only be established by epidemiology. C
12:54:40 From Kishor Khankari : Efficacy of air cleaning technologies depend on indoor airflow patterns. CADR alone is not a good metric.
12:56:31 From Nate Adams : What might this look like at residential scale?
12:56:59 From Jim Newman : The studies on restaurants in China and the U.K. are pertinent to much of what Kishor and the terrific panelists have been saying.
12:57:15 From Nate Adams : Btw we have two Airbnbs that have good capabilities and Haven monitors/controllers
12:57:48 From Ralph Froehlich : Epidemiological studies of indoor air quality cannot easily demonstrate health benefits since they are focused on adverse health effects.
12:58:41 From Jim Newman : Nate, where are your 2 Airbnbs?
13:00:11 From Nate Adams : Oak hill WV
13:00:32 From cliff zlotnik : CleanAIRBnBs, what a great Idea and will earn a premium$$$
13:00:38 From elight : Hi, Ralph! Epidemiological studies of COVID have demonstrated actual COVID reduction by implementing masking, occupant screen etc
13:01:06 From Victor Cafaro : Good show - H2P
13:01:42 From Joe Hughes : H2P
13:01:48 From Lukas Jenkins | Edifice Rx : Masks and occupant screen are gone now. Buildings have to manage to not build up pathogens
User avatar
CliffZ
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:36 pm

Re: Episode 674: Marwa Zaatari, PhD & Christian Weeks – How to Achieve Sustainable Indoor Air Quality

Post by CliffZ »

Great Discussion Today.

The listening audience was engaged with the guests.

Link to the document: https://enverid.com/resources/learning/ ... ncy-goals/

Nuggets mined from this week’s episode:

• Before joining enVerid 3 years ago, Christian Weeks worked in energy efficiency and energy demand response.
• Before working with enVerid, Dr. Maarwa Zaatari studied mechanical engineering.

What was the impetus behind putting together this paper? Improving energy efficiency and improving IAQ are at odds with one another because improving IAQ traditionally relied upon bringing in more fresh air. Using lessons learned from COVID, Maarwa and Christian began thinking holistically and collaboratively spearheaded the creation of a white paper with a goal of harmonizing improved IAQ with improved energy efficiency. In addition to the collaborating firms, they sought review of the paper by Bill Bahnfleth and others.

What type of pushback did you get from building owners? The push back from building engineers and sustainability managers to this initial guidance arose from an immediate concern about surging energy usage. This pushback was validated by a series of Energy Efficient IAQ Studies sponsored by the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) and a report by a team from Johnson Controls (JCI) and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).

100% fresh air is not feasible. Aerosol transmission mode of virus. Removing virus without added energy cost. Guided by the precautionary principles, systems limitations and costs.

While historically the thought pattern was to ventilate first because the solution to pollution is dilution; ASHRAE found that filtration is the most practical approach. MERV 13 filters are efficient and cost effective.

To some, the new Clean First approach is controversial. Clean First provides improved IAQ and improved energy efficiency.

What is the metric equivalent air changes per hour (eACH)? A combination effect of outside air PLUS filtration and other air cleaning mechanisms at UVGI (Ultraviolet Germicidal Irradiation). Some outside air will always be needed to provide pressurization.

How do you define the metrics of IAQ? Review existing recommendations and standards. Our recommended IAQ metrics include: CO², PM 2.5, VOCs, O³ and formaldehyde.

Who is the target audience for the paper? The whitepaper strives to get the science right and serve as a practical guide and roadmap for building designers and building operators.

Is CO² a contaminate or a matter of freshness? CO² is not related to material emissions or cleaning products. CO² is occupant generated and related. ASHRAE does not consider CO² to be a contaminate. The whitepaper suggests 250 ppm level of CO². CO². serves as a

Cost comparison between ventilation and filtration? Filtration cost is 3 cents per square foot while the ventilation cost is 55 cents per square foot.

Roundup
• As HEPA filtration only removes particles, a layered approach to filtration including both particulate and gas removal is recommended.
• Revised documents are planned.

Z-Man signing off
User avatar
RadioJoe
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:58 pm

Re: Episode 674: Marwa Zaatari, PhD & Christian Weeks – How to Achieve Sustainable Indoor Air Quality

Post by RadioJoe »

My thanks to Christian Weeks and Dr. Marwa Zaatari for a detailed discussion of the "Clean First" process their groups are proposing for building owners. Naturally building owners are hesitant to just increase ventilation to improve IAQ and help with infection control. It's expensive to over ventilate and it can cause other unintended consequences especially in areas with wildfires or other sources of bad outdoor air. The layered strategy they propose makes sense. Next up in part 2 we will talk more about strategies for optimizing ventilation and validating, monitoring and controlling IAQ. We will be joined again by Christian Weeks along with SafeTraces CEO Eric Malmstrom.
Post Reply