Episode 726: Steven C. Cooper, MS & Gavin Macgregor-Skinner, MPH, MRCVS - Disinfection Technologies

Where the IAQ Radio Discussion Continues
Post Reply
User avatar
Site Admin
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:06 pm

Episode 726: Steven C. Cooper, MS & Gavin Macgregor-Skinner, MPH, MRCVS - Disinfection Technologies

Post by admin »

Show Resources: 12:05:27 From cliff zlotnik : who is owner of us patent#2,247,963

12:25:29 From Ed Light : My sanitizing recommendations for COVID have really changed over time. At first, I advocated frequent deep cleaning. As we learned more about how occupants were actually getting infected, I thought that frequent high-touch sanitizing would be sufficient. Now, although the limited, available data suggests that fomite transmission is not important, I think there is still an infection risk under worst-case conditions (i.e., a surface is touched soon after it's been contaminated but before cleaning). The best way to protect from this is still regular handwashing.

12:41:49 From John Long : the floor is the sink in the indoor enviroment.

12:49:19 From Adrian Fulle : This is a great resource for the basic information about HOCL - the disinfectant Steve mentioned: https://byoplanet.com/blogs/insights/hy ... o-cleaning
User avatar
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:58 pm

Re: Episode 726: Steven C. Cooper, MS & Gavin Macgregor-Skinner, MPH, MRCVS - Disinfection Technologies

Post by RadioJoe »

Very interesting interview today. Sometimes its surprising to learn nuances of techniques like electrostatic spraying. There are many variables in the disinfection arena. The key seems to be training but most of the training is probably being done by people selling equipment that may or may not be top quality. Gavin and Steve have a tough road ahead getting people to understand this but with Gavin's position at ISSA he has the right connections it sounds like they are trying to make a difference.
User avatar
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:36 pm

Re: Episode 726: Steven C. Cooper, MS & Gavin Macgregor-Skinner, MPH, MRCVS - Disinfection Technologies

Post by CliffZ »


Show Number: 726 Draft Blog
Steven C. Cooper, MS
Gavin Macgregor-Skinner, MPH, MRCVS
Disinfection Technologies

Good Day and welcome to the IAQ Radio+ episode 726 blog! This week we welcomed Steve Cooper and Gavin Macgregor-Skinner for a show on disinfection technologies. What lessons did we learn during COVID and what should restorers and others watch for when purchasing and using disinfection technologies?

Gavin Macgregor-Skinner is a Senior Director at ISSA – The Worldwide Cleaning Trade Association. He has more than 30 years of technical experience in responding to infectious disease outbreaks and emergency management. He is also an Associate Professor in the Department of Public Health Sciences at Penn State College of Medicine and teaches three 15-week graduate courses on Public Health. Macgregor-Skinner has appeared on CNN, Fox News, BBC and many other news outlets to share his expertise on High Consequence Pathogens.

Steven Cooper is an engineer with a technical specialty in the research and development of water-based electrostatic spray systems. He has developed innovative core technology and commercial products related to air-atomizing induction-charging (AAIC) spray systems. Mr. Cooper is an engineer, a scientist, as well as an entrepreneur. He is the co-founder of ByoPlanet/Good Salt LLC, and has been involved in establishing several other successful companies. Mr. Cooper received his undergrad and masters degrees from the University of Georgia and has been continuously involved with the UGA Applied Electrostatics Laboratory for over three decades.

Nuggets mined from today’s episode:

What have we learned from COVID?
Gavin Macgregor-Skinner- Contrary to common misconception, the cleaning industry is not an unskilled work force. The cleaning industry is an essential industry which utilizes science and best practices to clean buildings safely, efficaciously and efficiently using science (e.g.- chemistry, engineering, etc.) The cleaning industry is underrecognized and underappreciated.

Steven Cooper-The fear and panic of COVID drove people to seek a silver bullet. Businesses fought to stay open and make their premises safe for consumers. Some businesses purchased disinfection chemistry and spray equipment to treat their own buildings, while others relied on others for building treatment. Some businesses were driven out of business by COVID, while opportunistic businesses sought to profit within the chaos by providing disinfection services. Everyone wanted to spray something. As an industry leader in electrostatic spraying technology we kept our eyes open. Involvement with GBAC (Global Biorisk Advisory Council) provided a systems approach to: training, equipment and chemistry.

Gavin Macgregor-Skinner-Dr. Michael Berry’s book, Protecting the Built Environments, Cleaning for Health (1994) is the foundation for GBAC training. Under a grant from the US Dept. of Labor; GBAC created and taught 54 workshops throughout the US in which 850 people were trained. The attendee survey found that 95% of attendees had not been to a training course in over 5 years and many could not name the active ingredient or solvent in the products they routinely used. Dr. Berry’s vision of “Cleaning for Health” is the foundation for 4 different workshops in which “adults learn by doing”. The course is available in 8 languages. The course teaches the underlying science of the items contained in a cleaning cart in a fascinating way: tools, products, chemistry. The attendees are taught to do their job based upon evidence and science. Instruments such as: UV lamps, ATP, UVLED lamps, BactoScan®, real time PCR testing are used to quantify performance results.

Gavin’s field experience in war zones monitoring for bioweapons involved use of a suitcase sized real time PCR monitoring instrument, now the instrument is the use of a cell phone.

After visiting the Innovation Exhibits at trade shows, Gavin is waiting for big exciting things to happen!

Steven Cooper- In general, spraying is not an efficient process due to obstacles such as: gravity, air currents, boundary layers. Electrostatic spraying is designed to improve coverage and put droplets on the target surface. Electrostatic spraying adds charges to droplets. The electrostatic sprayer harnesses the same attractive force that causes our clothes to stick together when tumbled in the clothes dryer or attach a balloon to a surface after rubbing it on our hair. When used to apply disinfectants; the technology can deliver droplets into hidden areas.
Electrostatic spraying isn’t new. Charges were added to droplets in the 1700s during Ben Franklin’s time. Different charging options are available. The type of charging depends on the type of material being applied. Different charges are used to deposit powders or paints than are used to deposit water-based disinfectants. Electrostatic charges should not be lumped together. Due to his affiliation with the UGA (University of Georgia’s Electrostatic Lab), Steven was able to have testing conducted on 19 different new sprayers who made untrue and outlandish advertising claims i.e.: 360°coverage, spraying the front of a refrigerator will also deposit enough droplets to coat the back, that sprayers had adequate propulsion to put droplets on distant targets, etc. The results were that the competitive brands of sprayers were found to have used inappropriate methods to try and charge highly conductive (salt containing) disinfectants, were unable to achieve 360°coverage, were unable to propel droplets to distant targets, etc. According to the UGA study, only AAIC (Air Assisted Induction Charged) technology was demonstrated to work. https://engineering.uga.edu/from-agricu ... -continue/ Unfortunately, due to a combination of fear and panic logic was forgotten. Many cleaning and restoration contractions were deceived; even the UGA was conned into purchasing costly ineffective equipment. The combination of the right training, the right equipment and the right chemistry are needed to achieve the best results.
There is a 5-15 fold increase in droplet deposition when charge is activated. Electrostatic sprayers mounted to spray booms on tractors are used in agriculture to spray crops.

Gavin Macgregor-Skinner-In his work with high consequence diseases and bioweapons spraying is always part of the protocol. When setting up Ebola hospitals where there was a 60% fatality rate, we would thoroughly wet (drench) surfaces with an appropriate disinfectant to ensure there was no viable virus. Gavin has established methodology for fast, efficient and effective disinfectant for the NFL, NBA and other sports. Disinfection is a system not a product or device.
Gavin has used electrostatic sprayers to apply fentanyl neutralizing solutions.
The response to COVID was overdone. We can’t always wait for government intervention and regulation. We need testing in real world situations. Gavin is working on bringing: science, industry, academia, service providers and stakeholders together.
We have reputable peer reviewed cleaning industry journals. The government and academia should accept articles and papers.
Infection transmission is real. All it takes is touching a microbe contaminated surface and then touching an opening in our body. Gavin is an advocate for building antimicrobials into products such as airline armrests and tray tables. Indoor spaces have complex geometries which harbor microbes. Floors are the largest indoor surfaces and play a role. We have good data on cleaning and disinfecting floors.
When it comes to cleaning and disinfection indoors, time is our biggest enemy. Delivery systems such as electrostatic spraying save time, an electrostatic sprayer can cover 18,000 sqft per hour, with a 2 minute dwell time. Gavin supports a move to evidence based efficacy. The CDC has provided contradictory information regarding COVID https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ayers.html
When COVID emerged, Gavin consulted with 3 professional sports teams that were using disinfecting wipes and after demonstrating proven methodology, converted them to electrostatic spraying.

Which chemistry will not work with your systems? Steven Cooper- Thick oily substances are not recommended. Our systems will apply a wide range of antimicrobials. We prefer and recommend safer antimicrobial products. The pathogen drives the selection of chemistry. Lockers rooms have complex geometry, air propulsion assists putting the chemistry on target.
We are actively working in animal health. Dogs are social animals, doggie daycares are a growing market for us. So is equine, horses are also athletes. Depending on the situation we provide chemistry options: HOCL (hypochlorous acid), quats, quat and CLO2 (chlorine dioxide) hybrid. We advise: look at the specific situation, evaluate the risk, determine how and where to spray. We offer a biostatic silane quat technology that provides 30-90 protection.

Does electrostatic spraying have any benefits to IAQ? Steven Cooper- Electrostatic sprayers are effective at removing airborne particulate upon which microbes, pathogens and chemicals are found.
Electrostatic sprayers are LP/VV (low pressure and low volume) applicators that apply chemistry more efficiently so less chemicals are introduced.
The droplet size created by electrostatic spraying (30-80 microns) is larger than created by other application systems so the droplets settle out much faster, particles don’t linger as long or spread as far.
Electrostatic spraying for comfort? Steven Cooper- Electrostatic spraying is being used successfully to prevent heatstroke by providing evaporative cooling for athletes and workers.


What about the mantra clean first and then disinfect? Gavin Macgregor-Skinner- There is both visible soil and invisible soil. You can’t see invisible soil without a microscope or ATP. In situations such as crime scenes, electrostatic spraying is done first as a method of risk reduction. Coverage is important, we are not trying to disinfect, we are trying to lower the risks.
The technology and chemistry have been established; now we need to provide the training. We need to share the success stories to attain the acknowledgement.
Making Safer Choices “The ISSA proudly announces a new partnership with Penn State College of Medicine and The City College of New York School of Medicine (CUNY Med) to improve human health and the environment in disadvantaged communities across Pennsylvania and New York. The initiative will be funded by a US$1.19 million Pollution Prevention (P2) grant from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). ISSA’s collaboration with Penn State and CUNY Med makes it one of 24 recipients selected by the EPA across the country.” https://www.issa.com/articles/making-safer-choices
We were asked to create Making Safer Choices “tool kits”; we will use a holistic approach by sending shipping containers full of cleaning tools and products to the selected areas.

Steven Cooper- During COVID with a limited quantity of equipment available we prioritized delivery to areas of greatest need: ambulances, first responders, etc.
Be an educated consumer, ask questions, request data and documentation.
Electrostatic spraying provides its greatest benefits on complex geometry.
How much does an electrostatic sprayer cost? Adrian Fuller- ByoPlanet Global Chief Marketing Officer- An electrostatic sprayer can be purchased for $500-$700, don’t let the equipment cost scare you. We offer significant discounts when sprayers are purchased along with qualifying quantities of chemistry. We have special programs for nonprofits.

What novel fire restoration sales strategy has proven effective for some of your customers? Adrian Fuller- ByoPlanet Global Chief Marketing Officer- As part of the initial visit and estimate, they provide a free deodorization demonstration in a room using the electrostatic sprayer and our HOCL product. It quickly eliminates the odor and leaves the room smelling fresh and clean.

Z-Man Signing Off

Who is the holder of US Patent# 2,247,963?
Harold P. Ransburg

Sorry to report there was no correct answer.
Post Reply