Episode 653: The Z-man Live from The Florida Mold Conference - “Odor Hunters”

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Episode 653: The Z-man Live from The Florida Mold Conference - “Odor Hunters”

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Show Resources: Show Discussion:

12:12:58 From Radio Joe : A good interview we did on odor was The Scent of Desire with Dr. Rachel Herz.
12:25:33 From Bill Pockels : Has anyone ever heard of the Nasal Ranger? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/clim ... Position=2
12:29:13 From Bill Pockels : How could ozone be used to detect odors or find their source?
12:29:45 From Radio Joe : I believe they are trying to eliminate the odor with the UV
12:32:36 From Paula Schenck : The theory possibly could be that ozone is so reactive with organics that it would change the odor source.. maybe would work --let's see what Cliff says ahhh BUT usually not a good idea to add ozone!!!!!!
12:48:40 From Bill Pockels : Is anyone acquainted with Susan Evans, CIH, CSP? She gave an AIHA webinar titled, "That Stinks!
Investigating Odor Complaints" on 1/31/2018.
12:49:08 From Radio Joe : sounds interesting
12:51:27 From Bill Pockels : Is there anyway to contact Cliff?
12:51:52 From Radio Joe : email me at Joe.hughes@iaqtraining.com
12:52:19 From Bill Pockels : Can you put Cliff's email on the screen again?
12:52:46 From John A. Bassa : Thank you Cliff
12:53:33 From Jonathan Faith : czlotnik@cs.com
13:02:51 From Victor Cafaro : Stay off the Pgh bridges
13:02:56 From Bill Pockels : Illicit drug cartels pack cocaine in coffee grounds to hide the odor from Dogs.
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RadioJoe
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Re: Episode 653: The Z-man Live from The Florida Mold Conference - “Odor Hunters”

Post by RadioJoe »

It's always great to talk odors with the Z-man. I like the idea of using coffee grounds to help clear your senses prior to sniffing again. A lot quicker than going in and out of the house/building. I will be trying that out.

Nice live crowd today for a great presentation by my Co-host.

Radio Joe
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CliffZ
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Re: Episode 653: The Z-man Live from The Florida Mold Conference - “Odor Hunters”

Post by CliffZ »

Afterthoughts
12:12:58 From Radio Joe : A good interview we did on odor was The Scent of Desire with Dr. Rachel Herz.
12:25:33 From Bill Pockels : Has anyone ever heard of the Nasal Ranger? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/clim ... Position=2
CZ-Yes, Bill I’m very familiar with the nasal ranger. If my understanding is correct, the nasal ranger is used primarily odors to detect odors. What it does is determine the intensity of odor by mixing the odor with higher and higher levels of dilution air and measuring it in units. The Nasal Ranger is dependent upon the sensitivity of the individual operator to the substance. Scentroid, is a Canadian firm with equipment which works on the same principle. The portable Scentroid device includes its dilution own air supply : https://scentroid.com/

12:29:13 From Bill Pockels : How could ozone be used to detect odors or find their source?
CZ-Bill, I’m not sure how Ozone would or could be used to “detect odors”? Ozone is a strong oxidizer, known to oxidize some types of odors. Ozone can be produced either by UV lights or “corona discharge” the creation of an intentional electrical arc. I’m familiar with the technology going as far as building ozone generators and almost buying a Canadian ozone manufacturing firm.
There are a growing number of products which use light bulbs to create: “hydroxyl radicals”, “dry hydrogen peroxide vapor”, “Purified O3”, “vaporized gas-phase hydrogen peroxide (H2O2)”, “Singlet oxygen and oxyradical plasma production”, etc.

12:29:45 From Radio Joe : I believe they are trying to eliminate the odor with the UV
12:32:36 From Paula Schenck : The theory possibly could be that ozone is so reactive with organics that it would change the odor source.. maybe would work --let's see what Cliff says ahhh BUT usually not a good idea to add ozone!!!!!!
CZ-Bill and Paula, Ozone is highly reactive. While touted as converting malodors into carbon dioxide and water vapor. In the real world Ozone reactions aren’t limited to only malodors, Ozone will react with anything it can and often creates new odorous compounds. Here is a link to some references if you want to learn more- https://www.ehso.com/airozonegenerators.htm

12:48:40 From Bill Pockels : Is anyone acquainted with Susan Evans, CIH, CSP? She gave an AIHA webinar titled, "That Stinks! Investigating Odor Complaints" on 1/31/2018.
CZ- I’m not familiar with Susan Evans and would be interested in the webinar. I have presented on the subject at Healthy Building Summit and elsewhere if you are interested I will gladly share the slide deck.

12:49:08 From Radio Joe : sounds interesting
12:51:27 From Bill Pockels : Is there anyway to contact Cliff?

12:51:52 From Radio Joe : email me at Joe.hughes@iaqtraining.com
12:52:19 From Bill Pockels : Can you put Cliff's email on the screen again?
12:52:46 From John A. Bassa : Thank you Cliff
CZ-John, you are very, very welcome. I’m always glad to share info.
12:53:33 From Jonathan Faith : czlotnik@cs.com
CZ- czlotnik@cs.com, 412-771-2300 office, 412-915-0447 cell

13:02:51 From Victor Cafaro : Stay off the Pgh bridges
CZ- Vic do you think the bridge collapse was a left wing conspiracy to coincide with President Biden’s visit to discuss infrastructure spending? : )

13:02:56 From Bill Pockels : Illicit drug cartels pack cocaine in coffee grounds to hide the odor from Dogs.

Notes from the slide presentation:
An odor is the result of one or more volatilized chemical compounds that are generally found in low concentrations that humans and animals can perceive through their sense of smell. An odor is also called a "smell" or a "scent", which can refer to either a pleasant or an unpleasant odor.
While "odor" can refer to pleasant and unpleasant odors, the terms "scent", "aroma", and "fragrance" are usually reserved for pleasant-smelling odors and are frequently used in the food and cosmetic industry to describe floral scents or to refer to perfumes.
In the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth, English-speaking nations, "odour" refers to scents in general—without positive or negative connotations; however in the United States, and for many non-native English speakers around the world, "odor" generally has a negative connotation as a synonym for "stink". An unpleasant odor can also be described as ”reeking" or "smelly", and can also be called a "malodor" or "stench".
UFO- Unidentified Foreign Odor. Is it a “solo-odor” only 1 person smells it, is it a “universal-odor” everyone smells it, or is it something in between? If the investigator cannot detect the odor he needs cooperation of someone who can, a “canary”.
Odor Detection Threshold - is the lowest level at which a human can detect an odor.
Odor Recognition Threshold - is the lowest level at which someone can identify the odor. At a given concentration one person may smell and recognize an odor while another may not detect it.
Building materials and personal property are not created equal. Porosity is the primary differentiator between them. The more porous, the greater the odor pickup potential.
In a fire materials scorch, char, burn and melt. Fire related odors do not deposit uniformly. Residual smoke odor resides within burnt materials, on fire related particulate and gaseous smoke odor sorbed by materials. Smoke odor is emitted by these odor sources.
During fires location, orientation and distance from the fire are determining factors for odor retention.
• During odor event: Odorous residue may not be deposited uniformly.
• Odor diffusion, odor movingfrom area of net high level of odor concentration to areas of lower concentration.
• Air as transport mechanism for odor.

Microbial odors don’t deposit uniformly

Most important to determine the location of odor emission? Because there will always be a remedy, sometimes the ultimate remedy removal.

I attribute odor patch test to Jeff May, author of My House is Killing Me. Aluminum foil, over paper towel, taped to surface. Creates microenvironment to trap and retain odor emission.

Accelerated odor patch test with heat (hair dryer) and moisture (distilled water)
• Fast
• Low cost
• Can be used in situ
• Broad approach
• Not intended to speciate
So long as odor is present on a surface there is a solution, sometimes a terminal solution is required.
Odor cleansing with coffee beans
Some improvements over patch test in method under development:
• Uniform distance.
• Consistent, uniform temperature
• Confirmable temperature
• Repeatable
• Observable, window
• Damp or dry sampling
• Damp + volatile solvent, metals, ductwork

Uses of method in development:
• Odor mapping.
• Quality control.
• Sampling horizontal or vertical
• Sample hard surface and porous surfaces.
• Odor barrier materials, aluminum, plastic

Links to UV related odor problems:
https://www.uvccleaningsystems.com/cm/d ... C_Odor.pdf UV and human skin

https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/threads/17181 ... ir-handler

Z-Man Signing Off

Here is today’s IAQradio trivia question: What is the medical definition of growing or thriving best in an intermediate environment (as in one of moderate temperature)?
Answer: mesophilic
SORRY THERE WAS NO CORRECT ANSWER!
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CliffZ
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Re: Episode 653: The Z-man Live from The Florida Mold Conference - “Odor Hunters”

Post by CliffZ »

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2022, at 9:23 AM, Pockels, William <wpockels@panynj.gov> wrote:

Cliff,

How do you think the Nasal Ranger compares to your device?

Bill Pockels


CLIFF ZLOTNIK (czlotnik@cs.com)
To: Pockels, William Details
Hi Bill,

The simple answer to your question is that Nasal Ranger and my device are entirely different.

My device targets potential odor emission sources indoors. Nasal Ranger targets the air.

From what I’ve read, the Nasal Ranger is commonly used for monitoring air outdoors around odorous industries and businesses: e.g. wastewater treatment plants, hemp and marijuana processing, etc.

The Nasal Ranger device allows the user to mix and dilute air with activated carbon.

CZ
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